Realistic Tiger Tank Turret Control

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phyrephish
King Tiger Commander
King Tiger Commander
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:24 am

Realistic Tiger Tank Turret Control

Post by phyrephish » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:06 pm

If you are into your tanks you may know that in WW2 the Germans used a hydraulic system to control the rotation of the turret which was driven by a "power take-off" from the main engine. This meant that the power traverse could only operate if the main engine was running and just as importantly full turret rotation speed could only be reached with full throttle. Asp users will know that the no engine - no power traverse is replicated by the switch to manual turret traverse when the engine is switched off. However, the full traverse speed only at full throttle is not replicated as this is a feature only of some WW2 German tanks. I'd be fairly confident to say that this feature is not present in currently available tank control units. I may be wrong but if so any such controller would then be limited to controlling only WW2 German Tiger, Panther and KTs.

The simple solution therefore is to replicate this feature using the programing abilities of your radio. By doing so you can setup this feature only for the tanks that may require it. Below I will show you how to do such a mix using er9x/ersky9x/openTX. The mixing is maybe a tad above the average BUT it is actually a variant of a fairly common aircraft mix so it is possible that this mix could be replicated on other radios. In aircraft this mix is typically applied to the elevator, whereby you get a little more up elevator (lift) with decreasing throttle (thrust). In our Tiger tank we are going to swap things around so that we are giving more Turret (AIL) with increasing throttle (THR).

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In er9x more than likely your turret control channel, usually CH4 (AIL) will only have a single simple mix giving 100% of the AIL stick

CH4 100% AIL

Now since we want the THR stick to exert some control over the turret we insert a mix with the source as either CH2 or THR.

NOTE: Here we are using the Tamiya standard of RTEA, with throttle on CH2. Your controller may not be using RTEA as standard. The next most common would be TREA with throttle on CH1. If this is the case where I mention CH2 you would replace with CH1.

If you have applied some momentum mixes to your throttle channel I suggest using CH2 if not use THR. If you want the best possible control over momentum/interia have a look here on how to program that
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=57

[Insert Mix]
Source = CH2 or THR

Now we can use the Offset to determine the max speed of the turret when the throttle is in idle. Whatever value you choose here will determine the Weight value, such that Offset+Weight=100. I suggest starting simple with:
Offset = 50%
Weight= 50% NB: 50% + 50% =100%
if turret too fast at idle then lower offset and increase weight accordingly, say 40:60.

Now since we want to apply a positive value for both throttle forward AND reverse for the CURVE we select |X|
Curve = |X|

Finally we want the mix applied proportionally so as the Multiplexer we choose Multiply
Multiplex = Multiply

So your new inserted mix on CH4 will have the values:

Source = CH2 or THR
Offset = 50%
Weight= 50%
Curve = |X|
Multiplex = Multiply

How it works:
When your THR stick is in neutral it's weight = 0%, the offset is always 50%, so the combined influence of your THR stick
is: 0% (Weight) + 50% (Offset) = 50%
Hence when THR is neutral and you push your AIL stick to the max (100%) the result will be 100% x 50%, or 50% of 100%, which is of course 50%. Hence you cannot get more that 50% of turret speed when in neutral.

When your THR stick is at full it's weight is limited to the 50% we have set, so the combined influence of your THR stick
is: 50% (Weight) + 50% (Offset) = 100%
Hence when THR is at full and you push your AIL stick to the max (100%) the result will be 100% of 100%, which is of course 100%. Thus 100% of turret speed is achieved only when THR is at max.

Cheers, KG

Please note that the pics below are from my radio - I do not fly planes I drive tanks. Tanks have a Turret (TUR), Cannon (GUN), Motors (MTR) and are steered (STR). They do NOT have elevators, ailerons or rudders, so I have a radio that allows me to change from plane terms to tank terms :)

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Rad_Schuhart
Kübelwagen Driver
Kübelwagen Driver
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:23 am

Re: Realistic Tiger Tank Turret Control

Post by Rad_Schuhart » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:11 am

Very very interesting, I will try it at home.

I also noticed the Tanker9x splashscreen. As far as I know tanker9x was abandoned. Are you using a newer version? Or are you using a new version of ersky but just keeping the splash screen?

At the other hand I got an idea in another forum. For those like me who don´t like self centering throttle stick and want a more realistic way of driving: To be able to change the gears manually.

The idea would be when having the throtle stick all way down, it would be 0 throttle, and from there to the uppest position more and more power.

With a three position switch, with the lowest position we could select reverse gear, middle position neutral (having only rev up sound when pushing the throttle) and upper position forward gear. It would be very very cool.

Also with more smart programming we could have another switch for selecting speeds (gears) when driving forward.

It would be ultra realistic and very fun to drive... But a bit complicated and unnefective when IR battling... At least for most of the IR battlers who want to drive their king tigers jackrabitting forwards and backwards continuously... But for a real tanking experience it would be cool.

What do you think? Do you have ideas of how to do it? If not I think the guys at openrcforums will know.

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phyrephish
King Tiger Commander
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Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:24 am

Re: Realistic Tiger Tank Turret Control

Post by phyrephish » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:27 am

Hi Rad

Yes just keeping the splash screen - basically so that I know I've messed with the radio :)

Yes that way of control you suggest would be the best way of driving and certainly would provide the greatest amount of speed control. Basically you are doubling the control range. Programming would not be hard - possibly even easier.

I have certainly given it some thought especially for my "virtual" IR battle concept. This would be where there are 2 people per tank (Driver and Commander/gunner). The radios are linked via the trainer function (cable or bluetooth). Both users wear FPV goggles. Driver sees view from camera mounted in drivers vision port and only control tank movement. While commander/gunner views a camera in the turret and is in control of turret rotation, gun elevation and firing. The enhanced mode of driving would then give the driver a lot more to do. Again, I agree with you in single person IR battle it may be too much.

Cheers
KG
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Rad_Schuhart
Kübelwagen Driver
Kübelwagen Driver
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:23 am

Re: Realistic Tiger Tank Turret Control

Post by Rad_Schuhart » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:45 am

Ill try to program the radio to have those functions. It is going to be fun! :)

The only thing I am going to need is to add more switches to the radio. A couple of push buttons at the back of the 9x might be a great add for changing gears. A bit like changing gears in an automatic car, press one button in the right hand and change a gear up, press a button in the left side and a gear down.

Even when I changed the two pos switches to 3 pos ones, I ran out of switches... Im going to ask in the forum if it would be possible to add extra switches in an already modded 9x.

Rad_Schuhart
Kübelwagen Driver
Kübelwagen Driver
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:23 am

Re: Realistic Tiger Tank Turret Control

Post by Rad_Schuhart » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:15 am

Hi Kevin, I have the first progress in the gears and speeds changes. Still needs a bit of polishing, but it works!


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