RC Tanks Australia Forum

The Piranha Project

I have always been a bit dissapointed with the range of current IR battle systems and have always suspected the fault lay with the Tamiya style sensor mushroom. The current design involves using a single IR receiver apon which the IR light is reflected by an inverted pyramid.

One of the nice things about RCTA is that we can adapt fast to the very latest technologies. Many current IR battle systems are stuck to using older and quite frankly outdated components. When coupled to with the inefficient design of using reflected light stated IR ranges are rarely if ever achieved.

A good example are the new Taigen blue IR sensors which barely have 5 metres range. The black Heng Long mushrooms are reliable up to 10 metres. Both Tamiya and Impact claim 30 metres but if you keep looking you will find that that is indoors where the is no sunlight to deal with and walls to reflect the IR light onto the receiver. I would love to see a video of a Tamiya/Impact unit outdoors taking hits at 30 metres. Typically you can expect 15 metres from these units outdoors.

Below is a video of a tank OUTDOORS taking hits at 25 metres with our prototype receiver. We are using a standard MAKO2 and Hammerhead fitted with the standard 5mm TSAL IR emitter. Hits were being taken at ranges beyond 26 metres but moved the tank into 25 metres so that we could get a reliable hit for a single video take.

It is expected that with a little more refinement of the unit that the range can be increased even further. Here is the vid....



Cheers
KG

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rctanksaustralia.com

Looking good Kevin.

Although ungentlemanly I rather have a less sensitive receiver so i'm not shot out the game straight away.

Any idea price mark you be selling this? I know Clark are suppose to be releasing a battle unit a bit like the David battle unit (i.e. 4 receivers and no mirror prism) at US$20. But no idea how the performance of that compares with others yet.

Ian.

_________________
HL/Asiatam Metal Tiger 1
HL/Asiatam Metal KV-1 (1941)
WSM T-34
SU100
HE Abrams
HL Leopard 2A6
HL Jagdpanther

Hi Ian

The price would be also around the $20 as it requires a simple redesign of the existing Hammerhead which at present is only $15. The unit uses some only just released IR receivers which have built in sunlight filters and a quoted range of 45 metres.

Re: Your limited range - I think the whole RC battle concept needs to be turned on it's head and each tank be given a score based on its IR range, weight class, actual speed,...and so on. Teams are then given a maximum number of points with which to make a tank battle group. For a simple example

Total Points Allowed Per Team - 200

Tamiya King TIger (heavy) - 50 points
Heng Long Sherman (medium) - 40 points

Team A
4 x Tamiya KTs = 200

Team B
5 x HL Shermans = 200

Now supose the Shermans are fitted with long range IR receivers the battle is far more realistic as the range of the KT is far greater than that of the Sherman so the score of the Shermans is dropped to 33. Now Team B can have 6 Shermans (198 points). 6 shermans up against 4 KTs is a far more realistic battle scenario than 5 on 4 and way better than the current 4 on 4.

A little more complicated but it opens up the use of strategy and combining tanks with different characteristics to form Battle Groups.

Cheers
KG

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rctanksaustralia.com

Just a thought if these sensors are super good in daylight what is the sensitivity like indoors?

I know at our indoor meet the SLU equipped tanks really struggle with been hit with the signal bouncing off the wall. No lie but I have managed to hit a tank which is at other end of the room on a table with a couple of blokes stood round it and I wasn’t aiming in that direction.

Ian.

_________________
HL/Asiatam Metal Tiger 1
HL/Asiatam Metal KV-1 (1941)
WSM T-34
SU100
HE Abrams
HL Leopard 2A6
HL Jagdpanther

I would love the fact of a new receiver becoming available & having yet another battle unit option, especially in the $20-$30 price range.

Will this be a kit where only the internal electronics are provided, a complete kit that comes with the electronics, status LEDs, & the apple, or will it be a complete pre-built unit like a Tamiya TBU, ready to just plug in an existing IR sensor port?

I like the idea of being able to choose different IR ranges depending on the tank that the any certain sensor is plugged into, but rather than have to rely on several different IR sensor units to accomplish the different ranges, why not take it up a notch, go one step farther, & provide an ultimate IR sensor unit that has the capacity to allow extremely long ranges, but at the same time is also selectable to restrict itself to shorter ranges as well?

As someone (who will remain nameless ) had once brought up the idea a long time ago on some forums, to place a potentiometer between the connection to the sensor & the board, it seems it would be very easy to maybe go a step further, & incorporate a potentiometer right into an apple base & its electronics, to allow the user to lower & raise the voltage to the apple just by adjusting the POT built into it, effectively changing the amount of range a single sensor would be able to pick up signals. This means 1 apple for any tank class or scenario one wants to create.

I never tried this myself, so I'm not sure on the reliability or consistency of the sensor readings when various voltages are thrown at them, but it supposedly worked well for some who have tried it before. Just a thought, as it wouldn't be a huge expense to add a POT for testing that theory, but one thing for sure, it certainly would have a huge advantage over any other IR battle sensor if it had reliable distance adjustment abilities built right into it!

How cool would it be to plug your one & only apple, into ANY tank you own, then proceed to turn the pot to a certain setting, & know the tank can only be hit from a certain distance range, very short, short, medium, or long? ... I believe it would be pretty damn cool myself!

~ Craig ~

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(¯`·._.·´¯`·._ ★ B.A.D.A.S.S. F⊙rce Club F☮under ★ _.·´¯`·._.·´¯)

Hey Guys

@ Ian - to improve indoor performance you need to look at both your IR emitter and receiver. First up I've been banging on about the TSAL IR emitters I use which have a very small angle of half intensity. That is they produce a very narrow beam of IR light. The smaller the angle of half intensity the more accurate you have to be. Now onto the receiver - the new receivers are a new product and differ in design to the existing design. Most importanly the new receivers have two sensors - like a pair of eyes or a pair of ears. Thus they 'seem' to be able to tell from which direction a beam is coming and reject anything too far off centre. This is a huge advance. Of course nothing could stop you shooting at a reflective surface and using i=r to hit a tank. That is the nature of light.

@ Craig - What you want is already very simple to acheive and already a feature on MAKO2. You just need to think laterally. In the real world it is the range of the shooter that determines range. SO there is no need to have a receiver limiting range but rather range should be limited on the shooter. This make far more sense and far easier to implement. Already on MAKO2 there is a range limiting jumper for Bergepanzer mode. Since you don't want the repair signal going all over the battlefield there is a jumper with which to cut down the intensity if the IR signal. This limits the beregpanzer signal to only a few feet. Put the jumper back in place and full range is acheived. Now if such a system was implemented on the battlefield you could tell which tanks can shoot further by their actual size.

Cheers
KG

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rctanksaustralia.com

Kevin,

Would it be possible to program the MAKO2 so that light tanks have weak IR power, medium tank medium IR power, and heavy full IR power? And then an extra feature to turn on and off. Off because then your back to the Tamiya standard which some clubs require as a standard.

Ian.

_________________
HL/Asiatam Metal Tiger 1
HL/Asiatam Metal KV-1 (1941)
WSM T-34
SU100
HE Abrams
HL Leopard 2A6
HL Jagdpanther

_________________
(¯`·._.·´¯`·._ ★ B.A.D.A.S.S. F⊙rce Club F☮under ★ _.·´¯`·._.·´¯)

Hey Craig

I hear you and yes the 2 existing modes are at the complete opposites of the spektrum (misspelling intended) But that is all the 'hard work done'. The Bergepanzer operates with a 330R resistor and the unlimited with a 3R3 resistor. So all that needs to be done is settle on two values inbetween for short range and medium range, 100R and 200R immediately come to mind. The most cost effective way to implement would be physical selector switches. Could be done via programming with a digital pot but cost goes up.

cheers kg

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rctanksaustralia.com

Phyrephish,

Could the new receivers be made with the same footprint/plug arrangement as Taigen/Heng Long receivers, i.e. a drop in fit that isn't dependant upon the cupola design of the tank?

It would be better if everyone could easily fit them to keep things even. Maybe even a version to replace the Tamiya receiver?